Starting the Ketogenic Diet: Managing Your Metabolism To Stabilise Your Brain - Graham Phillips, ProLongevity, UK
What should someone do if interested in adopting the ketogenic diet or looking further into "metabolic psychiatry"? Hear about sacrifices, benefits, weight loss, constipation, nutrition, and having the right support. All in part 3 of 3 with the “pharmacist who gave up drugs”, Graham Phillips.
Reported by Torie Robinson | Edited and produced by Carrot Cruncher Media.
Podcast
-
00:00 Graham Phillips
“Once you discover this way of treating or preventing illness, you can't unsee it. It's impossible for me now to go back and say ‘Well just take a statin’ - I just can't do it!”00:10 Torie Robinson
Fellow homo sapiens! Welcome to, or welcome back to Epilepsy Sparks Insights. Today’s chat is part 3 of 3 with the “pharmacist who gave up drugs” – Graham Phillips - who shares with us what someone should do if they are interested in the ketogenic diet or "metabolic psychiatry"! We talk about what one might need to give up, feeling full/atiated, weight loss, constipation, nutrition (of course!), and having the right support IF the ketogenic diet is right for somebody.
If you haven’t listened to episodes 1 and 2 yet, I really do advise that you do that, as Graham gives us some great background into the ketogenic diet, the challenges faced in acceptance of the benefits - by clinicians, politicians, and regular people - and where we are today - unfortunately - in terms of the human brain and main body health. But, maybe the keto can help with that…
Please don’t forget to like, comment and subscribe to our channel. Only about 18% of our regular viewers are actual subscribers, so if you are one of the 82% that hasn’t yet subscribed, please do do so today. Having you on board helps us with the algorithms which then promotes our channel to more people who don’t yet realise how fascinating and never ending the subject is! Plus, we get to raise awareness and understanding of the epilepsies around the world. Now, onto our star of the week in part 3 of 3, the “Pharmacist Who Gave Up Drugs” and became passionate about the ketogenic diet; Graham Phillips.01:32 Graham Phillips
So, I'm famous (or infamous depending on how you look at it) as the “pharmacist who gave up drugs”.01:37 Torie Robinson
So, research is, I mean, it's one of the most exciting things in the world and it's incredibly important, but how we interpret studies is really, really important. And the best scientists will say exactly the same thing and tell you that, you know, results need to be replicated. And they'll tell you that actually we are focusing on this tiny slither - which you have to do - a slither of a population or, you know, tiny, you know, one particular drug and, but we don't know the rest of it. We can't generalise, right?20:06 Graham Phillips
I think that's true for drugs, but I think you can generalise. In general, there's healthy metabolism and you can identify what healthy metabolism looks like.02:15 Torie Robinson
Of course.02:16 Graham Phillips
You can measure it objectively. You can change the diet and you can see the changes. And you can measure the changes in people's absolute health and proxy measures for health. And that's why there's a group of us collaborating both in the UK and worldwide to shift the paradigm. And I believe in the next 10 or 20 years, there will literally be a paradigm shift where we realise that medicine is food and food is medicine; with [the] potential to fundamentally shift the dialogue and our wellbeing. Because what's the alternative? We cannot fund… look around you - the obesity epidemic is one thing, but the mental health epidemic blows that into the weeds. And it's getting worse and worse. The funding isn't there. We've gotta do something differently. So, this to me is the most optimistic thing I've ever done in my professional life.03:11 Torie Robinson
And talking about funding, I mean, I mentioned this before but it's about funding needed right now and the imminent and potentially foreseeable few years; but long term the funding will, required will reduce.03:23 Graham Phillips
Exactly. People don't remember, but when the NHS was first introduced, they thought the problem would solve itself. So, we'd cure everyone, we'd all be fit and healthy, you wouldn't need a health system and it will pay for itself. So, it was reduced as a health service, right? The whole concept of the NHS was a health service. We haven't got a health service, we've got an illness service. The paradigms turned upside down. We can go back there though, there's no inherent reason why we couldn't get the NHS to do what it was originally supposed to do. We've just forgotten that.03:54 Graham Phillips
You and I have had some offline chats about all of this…03:57 Torie Robinson
Mmm!03:58 Graham Phillips
…and I don't think I've convinced you that I'm right, but I think I've convinced you it might be worth trying - and that's all I would ever ask, really. I don't, you know, if it becomes about belief systems then it becomes a cult.04:13 Torie Robinson
Correct!04:14 Graham Phillips
And I'm not a cultist…04:14 Torie Robinson
Right.04:15 Graham Phillips
…right? I'm not saying to everyone I'm right. All I'm saying is I might be right. Look at what I do, look at what others are doing, look at what we're putting out. Reach your own conclusions. And you might reach a different end point.04:32 Torie Robinson
I'm not doubting that your work and advice to these people with different diseases has worked to benefit them, but it's just that I'm… I don't know, I'm always a bit scientific-minded in terms of what we change and what we alter.04:48 Graham Phillips
Good. And you should be.04:50 Torie Robinson
And also I'm very aware that each individual is very individual. What may work for one person might not work for another. And, you know, lots of us are on different medications, even though we want to get off them(!), like things that right now are different to that of another person. And, you know, like, I've been thinking a certain way or believing drugs, drugs, drugs and surgery for a long time, like decades and...you know, although I can't say it's all positive, it's kind of a bit like that safety area. It's what you know. It reminds me of somebody I know who said it took him years to actually leave a marriage because he was like “I don't know anything else. I'm scared of it.” and I think it's like that decision. Yeah.05:36 Graham Phillips
It is the same.05:37 Torie Robinson
Yeah.05:37 Graham Phillips
Yeah, yeah, it's a reference framework. Yeah.05:38 Torie Robinson
But I'm also very excited! So, for instance, in my case, and you said to do [this] - I would have done this anyway, but you very kindly said - “Let's get your clinicians on board. Okay, so like…05:48 Graham Phillips
Yeah, absolutely.05:49 Torie Robinson
…reach out to them. Let’s let them know this is what you are gonna do. You need their support. And I think it's really important to get interaction between them or that one person, multiple people and yourself. So, you could have, you know, say you have, we spoke before about HIV-AIDS. If you have your clinician who specialises in that to get involved with you, that would be really, really important.06:12 Graham Phillips
We've got the beginnings of a cunning plan, which is yourself and me and Erin (who unfortunately couldn't be here today). We're going to have a go at some… changing your diet and see what results.06:25 Torie Robinson
I’m gonna miss chocolate dude! I'm just like what am I gonna do and and okay maybe I'm completely wrong but I'm thinking “The chocolate, the milk for my tea… oh my god what am I gonna do?!”!06:35 Graham Phillips
Chocolate's fine, it's the sugar that they put in it there the problem lies. You can have your chocolate, it's okay.06:40 Torie Robinson
So diabetic chocolate maybe?06:41 Graham Phillips
The Cadbury’s Dairy Milk used to be 79% sugar!06:46 Graham Phillips
I've got no problem with chocolate, so long as it's high quality chocolate without a tonne of sugar in. So, you'll probably be able to carry on with chocolate. Just not the same chocolate.
06:51 Torie Robinson
And I'm a bit of a salad fiend… So, we spoke about this briefly before, and I think you said something about your call with having a bit of salad, but it's stuff that's been grown underground that's an issue. Is that right?07:40 Graham Phillips
Broadly we wanna reduce the carbs and increase the protein and the fat and by playing with the protein - so, that's why there's not one single keto diet. The original one that John Hopkins came up with was a very high packed…so, the fat to protein to carb ratios were very set. Now there's about 4 or 5 different versions and different iterations work for different people. Because there's no point in saying this is the diet for you, but you can't cope with it.07:29 Torie Robinson
Yeah, right.07:30 Graham Phillips
Better to pick the version that you can sustain. And maybe we gradually evolve it over time. So, the plan would be to gently, gently, gently, slowly, slowly, slowly evolve your diet in a way that you find sustainable and enjoyable.07:43 Torie Robinson
I wanna feel full!07:45 Graham Phillips
I always say to clients, the first thing is don't be hungry.07:47 Torie Robinson
Right, you've got to feel satiated, otherwise, hmmm...07:50 Graham Phillips
Exactly. So, we start with satiation, we avoid the junk foods, and then we move from there. Step by step by step and then it becomes sustainable.07:59 Torie Robinson
Am I going to have to eat knobs of butter?08:01 Graham Phillips
Who knows?!08:01 Torie Robinson
Because I've heard about kids having to do that. Like there was this child, was this child… is this child(!) who… and this is an amazing story actually. So, had, I think Dravet syndrome (a rare type of epilepsy), was having all these seizures, went on the ketogenic diet, but full throttle, the most severe… as did his mom and dad. And his cognitive function has increased. He's in regular school and his mom and dad are cool about it, but they said they sometimes have to eat knobs of butter.08:29 Graham Phillips
Almost none of my clients eat knobs of butter. They do bullet coffee sometimes. Some of them like the bullet coffee. So, they put some butter in a coffee and whisk it up.08:38 Torie Robinson
Aw mate, that sounds rank! But I've never had it, so who knows, right?08:40 Graham Phillips
Yeah, works for some people or you can just add…there are various other ketone supplements. But who knows? I would have thought that was pretty unlikely. I mean, that's a fairly extreme version.08:51 Torie Robinson
Okay. And meat. Meat. And fish.08:53 Graham Phillips
Yeah, meat is a good thing.08:54 Torie Robinson
And fish.08:55 Graham Phillips
Meat, fish. So, yeah, the one thing we know is we need to keep the carbs low and then we play with the protein and fat ratio, but healthy proteins, healthy fats. And we flesh it out. Because remember, nutrition isn't macros. The macronutrients, the proteins, the carbs and the fats. Our body doesn't thrive on macronutrients, it thrives on micronutrients. It's the vitamins, it's the minerals, it's the amino acids. So, that's why simply playing with the macros misses the point entirely. Yes, you've got to get the macronutrients right, but you've got to get the right nutrition. That's not the same as calories.08:36 Torie Robinson
We've been brought up to believe that if you're going to get all these nutrients that you need, all these vitamins, you have to eat all these different types of vegetables and fruits. And are you implying that's not the case?09:47 Graham Phillips
Yes, I am.09:49 Torie Robinson
That's just, like, nuts!09:50 Graham Phillips
If you look at human nutrition - if you look at the macro and micronutrients of red meat and offal or eggs, it's remarkably complete. So, I'm not saying that you should, but if you follow Jordan Peterson or Michaela Peterson, they've gone, well she calls it the lion diet, they're huge influencers. I don't know how many, he's got 20 million YouTube followers or something. They've gone on a particular form of the carnivore diet, but it's revolutionised her health. I'm not saying that you should do that at all, I'm just giving an example.10:29 Torie Robinson
And what about bunging one up? Like, so like constipation and stuff, because this is something commonly experienced by people with an epilepsy.10:37 Graham Phillips
Yeah, again, there's not one simple form [of the diet]. So, it may be a problem, but generally it resolves. So, once your gut gets used to working in a different way and everything's working normally, it resets10:53 Torie Robinson
But I’ve heard the keto diet can do that. Because it’s not necessarily full of fibre.10:56 Graham Phillips
Very few of my clients complain about constipation. Some do, but it's not a common finding and we can always solve it.11:04 Torie Robinson
Apparently weight loss is really common in people. Is it because they feel satiated and they don't eat as much C-R-A-P or what?11:10 Graham Phillips
Well, it's interesting, most of my clients probably end up taking in more calories than before.11:16 Torie Robinson
So, calories isn't everything.11:17 Graham Phillips
Calories is nothing! So, I always say to people: you know when you go to your petrol station, you fill the car up and you see the fuel gauge doing that*. We have no such gauge. We literally do not have any way of… we've got no receptor for calories. Your body doesn't know what calories are.11:36 Torie Robinson
It's just our way that we've developed to measure things.11:38 Graham Phillips
Exactly. What your body does know is, is it getting the right nutrients? So, we've got a variety of nutrient sensors. So, in the typical Western diet where it's very high in calories but very low in nutrition, you've got to eat more and more food to get the nutrition that you need. So, you end up overeating calories to get the nutrients. If you turn the food pyramid upside down - so it's very high in nutrition and low in calories - guess what? Your body will just set its natural weight healthy. You won't be hungry all the time but you'll be getting nutrition. Because it's all about nutrition and not about calories. We don't need many calories, but we do need a lot of nutrition.12:21 Torie Robinson
I think of people that I've seen in remote tribes and I'm like “Mate, they look so buff!”!12:27 Graham Phillips
Yeah.12:21 Torie Robinson
I know they move around generally a lot…12:30 Graham Phillips
Actually not as much as we think! There's an assumption that they move a lot. Actually, that studies show they don't actually move that much more than we do.10:37 Torie Robinson
Wow, and they just look… ripped!12:41 Graham Phillips
Yeah! Because essentially they're eating the food that evolution has designed us to eat.12:46 Torie Robinson
If people are interested in potential... they're looking at the ketogenic diet as a potential treatment for a refractory epilepsy, or even actually maybe an epilepsy that's controlled by drugs; what would be… what should they do? Rather than… because they definitely shouldn't just go and try and put themselves on the ketogenic diet. Don't do that.13:08 Graham Phillips
100%. And particularly if you have other psychological syndromes as well…13:13 Torie Robinson
Right, which is so common13:14 Graham Phillips
Yeah, you could make those things worse. So, the first thing is: talk to your medical team. And if your medical team will not even discuss it with you, I would say you've got the wrong medical team. The medical team should support you on your journey towards health. Find the right clinicians who will support you and then work with people with expertise in nutrition. Combine with other people with expertise in whatever your particular illness is. So, if it's epilepsy, you need the right epileptologist, but you also need the right nutritionist.13:53 Torie Robinson
And often, the right neuropsychiatrist or psychiatrist…often, or, you know, if you've got cerebral palsy, you need the person that you work with there to be on board. Yeah.14:02 Graham Phillips
So, there are - both in the UK and worldwide, we're small numbers currently, right. I would say probably 5% of the medical establishment, but we do exist. And… and because we've realised how difficult it is, a), we support each other worldwide and b) we're very keen to support clients and patients worldwide. You'll find a very supportive community out there who want to help you. Not least because once you discover this way of treating or preventing illness, you can't unsee it. It's impossible for me now to go back and say, we'll just take a statin. I just can't do it!14:38 Torie Robinson
I know loads of people and myself, I thought “My gosh: cholesterol. Like, if I eat all this stuff, isn't my cholesterol (I know there are different types of cholesterol) - isn't that going to go through the roof?14:47 Graham Phillips
Yes. Your cholesterol will go up and that's a good thing.14:49 Torie Robinson
What?!14:51 Graham Phillips
Yes! So, cholesterol is such an important molecule that every single cell in the body makes its own cholesterol.14:57 Torie Robinson
Oh, it's a key part of your brain isn't it? I read somewhere, like, isn't it like 20/30% (or something) of it is cholesterol?15:04 Graham Phillips
60%.15:04 Torie Robinson
60! Is in your flipping brain for it to work properly?!15:07 Graham Phillips
Because it's a huge molecule, it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier. As a result, the brain makes its own cholesterol. Now just think about evolution: why is evolution so stupid that it would go to the extent of getting every single cell to make something that's unhealthy? I mean, how does that make sense?15:29 Torie Robinson
Well, I mean, sometimes it's not great to be fair. Like, there are anomalies, but yeah.15:33 Graham Phillips
Cholesterol is a fundamental part of building block… you know, our cell membranes, our transmitters, our brain. So, this whole cholesterol thing has got really mixed up. It's actually the way that cholesterol is transported where the problem lies. It's about the lipids, not the cholesterol. When your lipids are damaged, it's a bit like getting, you know, if you've got oil in the engine of your car and some water gets in, the engine starts to rust and oxidise.15:59 Torie Robinson
Yep.15:59 Graham Phillips
And that's where the problem lies. So, it's the way… where the damage originates is how the cholesterol is transported around the body. That's where the damage is done to your heart and your vascular system. So, it's cholesterol transport, not cholesterol itself.16:15 Torie Robinson
Right.16:15 Graham Phillips
Root cause. What's the real problem that we're trying to address? And cholesterol ain't the problem. So, don't worry about the cholesterol. It's about ratios.16:24 Torie Robinson
Thank you to Graham for part 3 of 3 about the ketogenic diet! It’s all rather fascinating - to say the least - but please do remember that this episode is not clinical advice. If you or someone you know is considering the ketogenic diet as a treatment for anything (or even just a chance in diet overall), please run it past your clinician first!
If you haven’t already, don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe to the channel, share the episode with your friends/colleagues, and we’ll see you in next week’s episode of Epilepsy Sparks Insights!*Graham raises his arm to 12 o’clock.
-
Graham Phillips is the founder of ProLongevity and has been a successful Pharmacist for over 35 years. His purpose is to help people to live a longer, healthier lives.
Graham turned his back on drugs after seeing more and more of his patients getting sick and staying sick, with medication partly masking the issues but not solving them.
ProLongevity, is an approach that combines unique biological data and precision nutrition with health professional support, to hold back the tide of diabesity, and help people transform their metabolic health without the use of medication.
Graham’s aim is to change the way that we approach healthcare in the UK using data, precision nutrition and health professional support to empower individuals to live longer, happier, healthier lives. Importantly, ProLongevity’s approach can reduce the cost and resource burden across the NHS from preventable metabolic diseases.
-
X/Twitter: grahamsphillips
LinkedIn: graham-phillips
YouTube: @ProLongevity
ProLongevity: prolongevity.co.uk